1. These poems are not merely descriptions of paintings. How do Updike and Auden use the paintings? Why do you think they refer to the paintings instead of writing poems without them?
2. Do you think having the paintings right there to refer to helps you or hinders you as you are reading the poems? Do you rely too much on them, or do they help you to understand the poets' angles of vision? Explain.
3. Discuss the significance of these lines:
They never forgot
That even the dreadful martyrdom must run its course
Anyhow in a corner, some untidy spot
Where the dogs go on with their doggy life and the torturer's horse
Scratches its innocent behind on a tree.
4. What is the "human position" of suffering, according to Auden?
5. "Before the Mirror" is about more than one kind of "reflection." There is the literal reflection in the mirror, but in what other ways is "reflection" important to the poem?
6. Updike uses sexual imagery in "Before the Mirror." Do you think the sexuality is in Picasso's painting as well? And, perhaps more importantly, why is the sexual element in the poem at all?
7. Talk about Updike's poem in terms of the theme of innocence vs. experience.
8. Why does it matter to Auden that it is Icarus in Breughel's painting and not some random swimmer?
I ended up reading the poems a few times. The first time I read them I did not really look at the paintings. I wanted to have my own mental image and then compare that image with what the author was writing about. Wow....that first reading was the most confusing thing ever. It seemed like just a bunch of random things thrown together. These poems would not have near the same meaning without the paintings right there to look at. Perhaps it is just me and not understanding poetry very well, but the pictures really helped. In 'Musse des beaux arts' I really liked how insignificant the legs next to the boat were. With out a concerted effort you would not see those legs and compared to everything else they are so insignificant. In the original story ,that this painting is a visual representation of, that person falling out of the sky was looked upon with "wonder and amazement", yet... in this poem the 3 observers couldn't care less.
ReplyDeleteIn the first phrase of the second paragraph, I believe that he is referencing what is going on with the Spanish civil war. To the spanish it is was the most important thing in the world, but to others it did not matter much. Like in this poem, the Farmer, Shepard and Fisherman didn't really care about Icarus falling into the water. However, when when the story was first told, those 3 observers were amazed.
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ReplyDeleteI think that having the paintings appear before the poem was helpful and helped me, as a reader, to prepare me for the poem. Although the poems were a bit confusing, and I didn't really follow what the writer meant, it still made more sense to have the paiting there and then after I read the poem I was able to go back to the painting for a second time and make the connection to what they were refering to.
ReplyDeleteI like how the authors wrote the poems not about the painting but rather just refered to them because it was almost like they were giving their own input on the paintings and telling somewhat of a story that they get from the painting. It really makes you think..
I had to read these a few times myself. I really took my time on these and looked carefully at the paintings to help me understand what the authors were trying to point out or make. I really think the paintings help us understand what the vision we could take tons of guesses of what the authors wanted to do and make the poems. I really like telling the difference from the painting to the poem. It really gets you to focus on what this is about or what you think it is.
ReplyDeleteI totally agree with what others have said about the pictures helping those who read the poem to better understand it. I personally am a visual learner, and it is very helpful for me to be able to see what someone is talking or writing about. I think that having something to look at, such as these paintings, while reading really helps get across what the author is trying to say. Sometimes while reading things we can misinterpret what the author is trying to say (especially in confusing poems!) so having a picture or painting helps to clarify what has been written.
ReplyDeleteI have to agree with Megan, I am such a visual learner. When I am reading something my mind tends to wander so much and I let things distract me and I get a totally different picture than the person next to me reading the poem. I know that this isn't necessarily a bad thing but when I have something to look at and focus on when I am reading it helps me so much to picture what the poem is about and I can try to think about what the author is trying to say.
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